Something that was brushed over on my 105/55 thread.

[Elistan Theocrat]

I mentioned this in my rant, and responses to it were pretty much buried in the monkroaches rabid defense of thier cashcow, so I thought it deserved another go.

Can someone explain to me how it became cool to bring droks armor/elite skills into ascalon and shiverpeak arenas? See, i'm having difficulty understanding why this is allowed to happen and beyond that why people think its a good thing to do.

I've heard every argument made by the people who wear droks armor/ use elite skills in the noob arenas, so I don't want to hear the same garbage here. This includes.

1.) you should get it yourself, youre just mad because you cant.
2.) I worked hard for this.
3.) I play the way I want to play, you cant make me play any other way.
4.) I have to do this to be competitive with the ones who do this or else I wouldnt...

I think all of those are copouts and not valid reasons to bring that crap to the noob arenas, So i'm hoping somebody can give me a valid reason why they feel they need to have an advantage at the noob arenas. Most of the people who are doing this also participate in the high lvl pvp, or at least they all claim to, so that in and of itself should be enough advantage, without bringing things that have no reason to be in those arenas, or somehow ensuring that thier group is a guild-group on ventrilo or TS. As if taking on a bunch of underequiped noobs who are randomly tossed together with a guilded and voicechatted group in with out of place armor/skills is something to be proud of instead of embarrassed by. Lame.

Looking at the bigger picture I'm constantly hearing people complain that competition at the high end of pvp is lacking. I'd wager competition there would be more interesting if those same clowns didn't all but exploit to have every possible advantage at the noob arenas, stomping out all hopes for good competition if youre not on your second/third charcacter, or if your first has been spoonfed the game by your guild I suppose. How many people do you think just get frustrated by the lame people in droks/with elites and just write off pvp in general. I mean if the lameness is that thick at the noob lvl of competition, it stands to reason its only going to get lamer (*COUGH* spirit spamming *COUGH*) as the stakes go up.

Not to mention that the same pvp folks are constantly complaining that UAS needs to be instituted (I agree by the way) so that they dont have to "grind" (which i dont belive actually exists in GW) to play on a level playing field, then turn around and do everything in thier power to make sure that the introductions to pvp are as unlevel a playing field as possible. Lame.

So I'd really like to hear someone explain to me why this is considered "cool" without A) telling me I'm jealous, because I've got the money and abliity to be this lame. B) telling me they can play how they want, because thats NOT a reason to do so, its an exuse to do so. C) that they worked so hard to have the stuff, and earned the right, which to me just means they went out of thier way to be lame.

Thanks
The Ever Popular, Elistan Theocrat.

[Fantus]

Riviving locked threads should be a banable offense...

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by Fantus

Riviving locked threads should be a banable offense...

If my locked thread was focused on one point of conversation out 3 that I brought up, I fail to see the problem in conversing about one of the points that was not addressed.

If you dont actually have anything to contribute to a conversation of the questions I posed in this thread, feel free to not respond further.

[cookiehoarder]

Are you talking about spirit spamming in Ascalon arena? Or halls of hero/GvG.

[Diplo]

Some people care more about winning than having fun, respecting their fellow players and playing fairly. It's as simple as that.

[LathalDraugr]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

I think all of those are copouts and not valid reasons to bring that crap to the noob arenas, So i'm hoping somebody can give me a valid reason why they feel they need to have an advantage at the noob arenas. Most of the people who are doing this also participate in the high lvl pvp, or at least they all claim to, so that in and of itself should be enough advantage, without bringing things that have no reason to be in those arenas, or somehow ensuring that thier group is a guild-group on ventrilo or TS. As if taking on a bunch of underequiped noobs who are randomly tossed together with a guilded and voicechatted group in with out of place armor/skills is something to be proud of instead of embarrassed by. Lame.

Huh? It's not possible to get a guild group with TS into the random arenas in one piece. As far as I know the random arenas are random so there's no way to garuntee a team all ending up on the same side. It's one thing to post pointless discussions and flamebait but please make sure they're about things that can actually happen.

FWIW I think using Droknar armour in low-level arenas is wrong but the arenas are always going to be unfair anyway due to the random nature so I see no point in getting worked up about it.

BTW for a self-confessed griefer you're awfully preachy.

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Oh and I do bitch about runners blue, but thats for a different thread. Hell when I'm bored I have a fun little game where I get into a runners group and let them get about halfway across the zone then zone back into wherever we started from and play all innocent, "what? how did that happen? Oh, me? Are you sure??" just to see how many times I can do it before they finally go "to hell with this" and quit. The record is 5.

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

Huh? It's not possible to get a guild group with TS into the random arenas in one piece. As far as I know the random arenas are random so there's no way to garuntee a team all ending up on the same side. It's one thing to post pointless discussions and flamebait but please make sure they're about things that can actually happen.

FWIW I think using Droknar armour in low-level arenas is wrong but the arenas are always going to be unfair anyway due to the random nature so I see no point in getting worked up about it.

BTW for a self-confessed griefer you're awfully preachy.

Its true, i'm not sure what it took to do it. But i've more than once seen guld teams in the noob arenas. I'm not sure if they are just going again and again untill the random tosses them together, or if they are maybe talking folks into leaving after a win and before the reset to give them a chance of getting guildies into the group, I dunno, all I know is I've seen it.

LoL, yea like 5 times over the course of one day when I was frustrated with the crap, like the crap that I'm posting about here, that running facilitates I did an experiment to find out how resiliant the runners were to someone who apparently doesnt know better zonining back into the outpost. Then I got bored with it, because I dont live to piss in other peoples cheerios. Not exactly the same as what I'm inquiring about.

[jonnybegood]

in your argument you say "I play the way I want to play", but for the people who want to use the 105 build isn't it the way the want to play the game?

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by jonnybegood

in your argument you say "I play the way I want to play", but for the people who want to use the 105 build isn't it the way the want to play the game?

This conversation is not about the 105 build. There is currently an open thread discussing that issue. I'd thank you to read any thread, particularly mine, before responding.

I belive you can find what youre looking for here :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=50651

[Fantus]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

If my locked thread was focused on one point of conversation out 3 that I brought up, I fail to see the problem in conversing about one of the points that was not addressed.

Then why even refer to the old thread in your thread title or opening post??? Were you secretly hoping that the discussion would switch back to the topic you really want here?

If you dont actually have anything to contribute to a conversation of the questions I posed in this thread, feel free to not respond further.

I actually agree with what you wrote in your OP. Consistently with your other posting behavior, it's not the first thread about this question either....

[LathalDraugr]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Its true, i'm not sure what it took to do it. But i've more than once seen guld teams in the noob arenas. I'm not sure if they are just going again and again untill the random tosses them together, or if they are maybe talking folks into leaving after a win and before the reset to give them a chance of getting guildies into the group, I dunno, all I know is I've seen it.

Are you sure you just didn't get 10 succesive victories and then get matched with Team Arena groups? Seems like a very ineffecient way of getting faction, if they have the organisational skills to get a full party of Droknar equipped players into the low level arenas they should be able to get some GvG victories easily enough.

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

LoL, yea like 5 times over the course of one day when I was frustrated with the crap, like the crap that I'm posting about here, that running facilitates I did an experiment to find out how resiliant the runners were to someone who apparently doesnt know better zonining back into the outpost. Then I got bored with it, because I dont live to piss in other peoples cheerios. Not exactly the same as what I'm inquiring about.

Maybe not the same, but goes to show that nobody is free of wrong-doing from time to time so let's not pretend Droknar armour in the low-level arenas is a bigger problem than it is. Anyway if they need that armour to win any PvP they must be pretty awful anyway, a good mesmer or necro will deal with them in no time.

[Charcoal Ann]

i must admit that i admire the guts it takes to bring up an issue that was mentioned only a day ago in a thread that got you flamed beyond belief.

i can't see you being flamed in this thread because doing this: does not make money, does not do much for your balthazar faction, does not do much for your xp and does not really mean anything to real players.

The thing is that from what i have gathered from confersations with people who do this is that they DO do it because they can. they do it because it gives them an easy rush. they 'pwn' the opposition and they do get some satisfaction out of this.

this does not mean that they should do it. but because they can and because it gives an easy high they will continue to do it as long as they have the ability to do it. one thing that annoys me is when someone gets run across the entire world and then comes back with things like meteor shower and balthazars Aura. they are willing to spend thousands of gold on kicks. they get a kick out of winning but can't win often enough without some unfair advantage. Droknars Armor.

don't say things like 'nice guys finish last' that is crap. my lvl 8 monk in a team with no Forge armor wearing noob managed to win 12 battles in a row. the last thing i heard before i left the last battle? 'DORKANS ARMOR ROCKS!!!!!'
(i know my team didn't wear forge armor because i'm the monk and could see how much dmg they took, i also asked and they didn't even know where Droknars was)

to jonnybegood: when elistan said 'i play the way i want to play' what had emmediatly preceded the list was : 'i don't want to hear these excuses'

people who use forge armor and skills are small minded and, IMO, rather pathetic. it shows that they do not have confidence in their own abilities and feel the need to give themselves an almost insurmountable advantage.

rock on Elistan, rock on

[Starsky-sama]

hmm. from the 1st post. it seems like you already used common sense and answered your own question...by creating a thread like this, it will only draw some sarcastic or "flamed-up" responses. (also the title should be altered to understand the question better)

*it is already a given that ppl think this part of the game is flawed, due to ofcourse, the ability to run everywhere or that the armors do not have a lvl req.

*let Anet/GW deal with it.
*Suggest your solutions in the suggestion part of the forum.(avoids flamebait since it would constructive)
*ranting + asking an open question + but you only want to hear your kind of response = why ask at all...

*threads like these usually ends up /closed.(unless your open minded to all responses)

-cheers.

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by Starsky-sama

hmm. from the 1st post. it seems like you already used common sense and answered your own question...by creating a thread like this, it will only draw some sarcastic or "flamed-up" responses. (also the title should be altered to understand the question better)

*it is already a given that ppl think this part of the game is flawed, due to ofcourse, the ability to run everywhere or that the armors do not have a lvl req.

*let Anet/GW deal with it.
*Suggest your solutions in the suggestion part of the forum.(avoids flamebait since it would constructive)
*ranting+asking an open question+but you only want to hear your kind of response = why ask at all...

*threads like these usually ends up /closed.(unless your open minded to all responses)

-cheers.

Thanks for a fair look at my post, I conceed the title may not have been the best thought out.

As far as being closed minded, maybe a little bit. Those premptory comments on certain jusitifcations for this behavior were intended to "force" people to really think about thier answer as to why such behavior should be acceptable. I'm not entirely closed minded, if I were to be presented with a logical reason that such behavior should be condoned I'd be more than happy to give it a day in court.

As for letting Anet take care of it, thats certainly a respectable tack to take on the issue, and I'm not trying to say that because I think something is borked that Anet doesn't have the final say. What I'm getting at, and maybe i'm being optimistic about our community, that we as the players should have an active interest in policing ourselves, why should we HAVE to rely on anet to tell us whats right to do and whats just wrong. It comes back to that D2 mindset of if I can do it then it cant be wrong, which I whole heartedly disagree with.

I still believe that its pure hypocracy for the "hardcore" pvp'rs to complain about balance issues and non lvl playing fields in high end pvp when they will go out of thier way to unbalance low level pvp. I wish I had some way of finding out the numbers of people who wrote off participating in highend pvp because they got fed up with the crap in the introductory pvp areas.

Originally Posted by Fantus

Were you secretly hoping that the discussion would switch back to the topic you really want here?

lol, no I'm not clever enough for that. With me, what you see is what you get.

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

Are you sure you just didn't get 10 succesive victories and then get matched with Team Arena groups? Seems like a very ineffecient way of getting faction, if they have the organisational skills to get a full party of Droknar equipped players into the low level arenas they should be able to get some GvG victories easily enough.

Positive, every time i've seen it, maybe 4 times in total to keep it in perspective, I've met them on the first match I've joined on a new run. I cant see it being efficient but in all cases I didnt stick around because whats the purpose of continuing, even if I were to get a group that fought well enough to win a few times we would certainly eventually come across those people and have our run ended again.

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

Maybe not the same, but goes to show that nobody is free of wrong-doing from time to time so let's not pretend Droknar armour in the low-level arenas is a bigger problem than it is. Anyway if they need that armour to win any PvP they must be pretty awful anyway, a good mesmer or necro will deal with them in no time.

Not really though, a well practiced, well communicating group with complimenting elite skills, in droks, would do very well at team arena. People in ascalon/shiverpeaks arenas stand about zero chance in a random group of dealing with that.

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

I must admit that i admire the guts it takes to bring up an issue that was mentioned only a day ago in a thread that got you flamed beyond belief.

lol, no its no biggie, I sleep in one of those flame retardant blankets.

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

The thing is that from what i have gathered from confersations with people who do this is that they DO do it because they can. they do it because it gives them an easy rush. they 'pwn' the opposition and they do get some satisfaction out of this.

Yep, its that d2 mindset. What I dont get is how they dont get a better rush out of an actual challenge and winning a hard fought battle on a level playing field.

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

people who use forge armor and skills are small minded and, IMO, rather pathetic. it shows that they do not have confidence in their own abilities and feel the need to give themselves an almost insurmountable advantage.

Amen.

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

rock on Elistan, rock on

Count on it.

[coleslawdressin]

Originally Posted by Fantus

Riviving locked threads should be a banable offense...

/signed

Not even going to read your garbage, stop polluting the forums with your whine.

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

/signed

Not even going to read your garbage, stop polluting the forums with your whine.

Your opinion has been duly noted and filed appropriately in the circular file. I whole-heartedly encourage you to never read, or reply to any of my "garbage" threads again.

[coleslawdressin]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Your opinion has been duly noted and filed appropriately in the circular file. I whole-heartedly encourage you to never read, or reply to any of my "garbage" threads again.

"The forum has witnessed a rise in complaints. As any game, Guild Wars is not perfect. However, complaining about some of its shortcomings will likely not benefit anyone. If there are things you dislike about the game, I suggest you create a thread in the Sardelac Sanitarium and state ways of improving it and not merely bashing it. Remember, the developers do read these forums and constructive criticism is paid attention to. If it is genuine, polite and logical then I see no reason why it would not be taken into consideration."

- quote from your admin THX here

Stop breaking the rules and I will stop reporting your garbage threads. Not only do you not offer any suggestions, it is not a new subject. Search for one of the other ones and cry there maybe?

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

"The forum has witnessed a rise in complaints. As any game, Guild Wars is not perfect. However, complaining about some of its shortcomings will likely not benefit anyone. If there are things you dislike about the game, I suggest you create a thread in the Sardelac Sanitarium and state ways of improving it and not merely bashing it. Remember, the developers do read these forums and constructive criticism is paid attention to. If it is genuine, polite and logical then I see no reason why it would not be taken into consideration."

- quote from your admin THX here

Stop breaking the rules and I will stop reporting your garbage threads. Not only do you not offer any suggestions, it is not a new subject. Search for one of the other ones and cry there maybe?

Sigh, Really man, you can post another reply to me if you are that insistant on having the last word but this is the last I'll respond to you.

1) I'm not bashing on the game. I'm asking the community why this kind of behavior is acceptable, If I were given a reason that makes sense as to why we should accept this kind of behavior I would be willing to take it into consideration. Thus, I'm not suggesting that ANET fix the problem, because its not a problem that ANET created, its a problem with the players that are behaving in this fashion, If they were not abusing the fact that you can wear droks into those arenas there would be nothing for anet to fix. By questioning the community on this behavior, my suggestion is that we as a community fix the issue instead of relying on programmers to fix it for us.

2.) since i'm taking that approach, this thread is NOT the same as every other thread out there that asks for anet to fix this situation. I'm sorry that you could not pick up on the nuanced difference there.

Now, be aware I will not allow you to derail this thread any further than you already have. If you respond here I'll ignore it as you shouldve ignored me in the first place. enjoy the last word if you want it that bad. If you want to converse in a civilized fashion, feel free to PM.

-in the interest of keeping this thread on track, does anyone else think that we as a playerbase could help keep anet able to be focused on the more important issues in this virtual world if we could police ourselves just a little bit when it comes to issues like this?

[Koroh]

The players who bring Drok armour to the level limited arenas are the same people who play most games on "Easy" instead of Normal. Many posters have commented that the rush from a hard fought battle is better than the rush from a lop-sided one, but in Drok armour these players never have to taste defeat. It's +1/-0 versus +5/-5. To them, the small victory just reinforces the idea that they're a great player, no matter the reason for their victory.

Every single-player game on the market puts us in the role of a protagonist who is better than every enemy in the game. Some shooters have bosses that require multiple lives to kill, but even then we only have to beat the boss once to be considered the victor.

With this in mind, is it any surprise that these players see nothing wrong with having an unfair advantage over their opponents? You do every time you go PvE so it's not that far a stretch.

While I don't agree with the practice, I completely understand where they're coming from. Personally I hate losing, even in a close match. I've had to keep my ego in check in PvP because I've been absolutely destroyed several times. On the plus side, now that I know about Drok armour I can just write these losses off to some d00d with uber stuff. It's probably not true, but it's a great excuse!

Koroh

[coleslawdressin]

must you bump this stupid thread?